Meeting Notes - sketchy from memory notes, if anyone wants to clarify details, go ahead LOCAL GOVERNEMENT ..the possibilities and new tools are way ahead of the systems, which are straining to grow into what they could be (and not sure exactly what they could be) existing data + public access levels + mobile and static device proliferation + pressure on local authorites from governement to automate transactions + consumer and institutional GIS data and tools: Local authorities are frantically trying to build out systems for automating transactions between citizens and local government. this is giving power to the programmers cos no one else understands what they are doing this probably reflects the whole world the number of these citizen / authority transactions appears to be finite (about 700?) all the data being generated is leading to local authorities finding housing stock they didn't know they had (but the books still balance) Although local authorities have free access to OS maps they're still paying ESRI and others for web mapping tools Local authority programmers kick private contractors because they can. quasi governmental agencies like OS and the post office are so focused on their personal markets that they've forgotten the public interest and the national economic benefits of sharing the data wheres the lobby for free mapping and free postcode/longlat data translation.? POST CODES The post office is treating post codes as their personal property (which they may be and anyway they keep changing and are arbitrarilly assigned) are post codes important? yes argument: the post code system narrows down to about 15 houses, there maybe an internal 9 digit post code that goes to the house level, but 15 houses preserves privacy and locates to a reasonable degree of accuracy everyone in the UK understands/uses it (maybe) no argument: if you are lost you don't necessarilly know a local post code, and as a place marker it is good for some applications but not for others. all the real information is in the heads of the post man (who may all be intelligent sci fi reading weirdos, and would probably be useful participants in a collaborative mapping project) Post codes are arbitrary, new ones can be added and boundaries can change are individual post codes subject to copyright? problem sharing with a postcodes in it? SO.. WHERE ARE YOU? cell tower, cell tower triangulation, Digital TV (rossum), GPS, enhanced GPS (SIRF), bluetooth or 802.11 request to other (probably static) device aware of its location. Intel are developing software that assumes multiple location finding technologies (on laptop) aggregating and switching between them as necessary. See: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2130827,00.html cross street method used by vindigo works well (true) 'i'm at the corner of first and Grub street' GPS is still a little way off but sneaking onto motorola chips and into phones (SIRF) available: motorola i88 and garmin - always on data connections + java + GPS hutchison's 3 network has reasonably good location finding (apparently) consume could get people to include location data when they set up an open 802.11 node COORDINATE TRANSLATION AND STATISTICAL ACCURACY long conversation on translation from one coordinate system to another (cost, mathematics, accuracy, where does the translation happen) node based model for spatial annotation should work, even with an open system statistical accuracy in an open system: choose the node with the most things attached and the right name, not the empty node with the right name a mile down the road in the middle of the cement works LIABILITY if you run a location/comments database and you screen your comments you're liable for them, if you don't then you're not (and no in between state exists in law - apparently) http://www.knowhere.co.uk knowhere is, by general consensus cool, started in the seventies on paper. had to remove entries that were negative to businesses due to comment editing legal liability issue SCHEMA Jo's RDF schema for describing places is a good place to evolve from but could maybe benefit from a link relative type reference that would allow more complex geographical markup people want to be able to locate photos (matt, danbri) a generally accepted and widely understandable rdf description would be very useful COLLABORATIVE TRACE DATABASE viable and will try to write something up and get in tocuh with waag society CARTOGRAPHIC CONGRESS go to the cartographic congress ..LATER hep is interesting http://www.fettig.net/projects/hep/ as is the whole subject of pubsub the body can be used to network mobile devices tcl aware web developer needed at the Guardian soon you'll be able to buy aerials in seed form from the garden centre everyone on the northern line feels better about themselves now that the central line isn't working at all the community charge worked but there were so many buses on the network to ensure regular service during the pre-cc days that now the problem is big queues of buses ..and also noone reset the traffic lights (all this information from central line users) central line users are also using there laptops on long (but theoretically short) bus journeys cos info points on the way have 802.11 connectivity ..left during the Godel conversation "The proof of Gdel's Incompleteness Theorem is so simple, and so sneaky, that it is almost embarassing to relate"